Chapter 9: Page 8 - It Had To Be Tanks... -

Feb 2016

Chapter 9: Page 8 - It Had To Be Tanks…

Posted by Daniel Sharp / in Comic / 66 comments

Tenzin has… a history with tanks. Any predictions on how he reacts to these ones? ;)

Nick is working on site re-design and build (with Seba making cool custom backgrounds and frames and whatnot). Any requests or suggestions on functionality? We’re already planning to rebuild the home page so that it shows the full current page on it.

Edit: Slight edit on the angle of Tenzin and the tank to make it clearer the type of hit and damage he received.

Matt [in Middletown]

*Clunk*
“Did you hear something?”
“No, keep firing.”

If Viktor were here: “I throw brick at it.”
- Daniel Sharp
  
  Except his tactical bricks have like EMP grenades inside of them now or something.
  - Matt [in Middletown]
    
    Explosive forged penetrators.
    - Adriano
      
      The prototype of Minerva Tactical Brick Mk V is equiped with laser pointers for incoming missiles shower, and the blueprints of Mk VI show some hunting drone squads deploying from the brick.
Jarin

The ricochet may make this my favorite page yet. I’m just imagining the *slow turn…* *glare* with the lead tank crew quickly coming to the realization that they just Dun F**ked Up™
Chris

Silly Jane. Actually more berserker super fast circle running is exactly how to beat some old tanks.

Nice shot from that tank gunner though on a moving target!
- Daniel Sharp
  
  Heh, he finally held still to shoot a bunch of guys running away, long enough for them to get a shot on him ;)
Amberlight

Wait, that small dent is all he got from a tank round? Either that is a simulation or there is something really wrong with those tank guns. Even if we suppose that those armor plates are so super hard to withstand the impact, the kinetic energy would send him flying in a violent manner regardless.

And how many tanks does NRF has? It’s supposed to have zero:P
- SebasP
  
  Have in mind that these are hundred years old tanks,the impact did move Tenzin and the armor its not absorbing all the energy but deflecting it,
  
  anyway, I’m pretty sure I could have shown it all better, but when I did my research I didn’t find many YouTube videos of tanks shooting at power armors :P
  - Amberlight
    
    Because even power armor gets torn to shreds by a tank round. Even with a weakened charge it has enough kinetic energy to tear off Tenzin’s arm by the blunt force alone.
    
    It would make much more sense if NRF used APCs they actually had in the game, not the tanks they don’t even supposed to have. Maybe at some point you should just redraw those pages and replace tanks with BTR-70.
    - NickDA
      
      Or redraw the deflection angle so that its clear it was an incredibly glancing strike… that 70 degree deflection look cool, but is incredibly steep (ie lots of kinetic energy transfer to effect that much momentum redirection)… would be a more minor refactor to the page than a tank redraw :D
      - Daniel Sharp
        
        You guys are ignoring the “Rule of Cool” ;P
      - Amberlight
        
        APCs would look cool enough:P
      - Adriano
        
        Rule of cool is one fo those rule you gotta be REAL careful when using in such a serious comic. I also say this for my upcoming webcomic xD
      - Amberlight
        
        But redrawing the tanks would bring the page more in line with the established lore. Because in that lore NRF doesn’t have tanks because the wood-fueled gas generators can’t fit on tanks. That’s why they use APC with gas generator taking up the infantry compartment.
      - Delta-v
        
        What happened to all the diesel oil the Sons of Mohammed traded to them? ^^
      - Amberlight
        
        Used for resins and lubricants mostly.
- Daniel Sharp
  
  Don’t forget, the forum game isn’t 100% canon. It was a simulated wargame, after all ;)
  - Amberlight
    
    It will be best if you redo the page and have the shot nearly hit Tenzin to give Jane the same reaction, but not fragging VIOLATE THE LAWS OF BASIC PHYSICS by not tearing Tenzin to shreds, super-armor or not.
    - Daniel Sharp
      
      “It will be best.” We appreciate the advice/feedback, but armchair comic making is getting a tad frustrating. I’m not going to make Seba completely redo a page when there is enough plausibility from angles/glancing/weak weapons and the sci-fi aspect of super power armor that it’s fine. For one, it’s not like I’m rolling in money to pay him for that much time, for 2, I’d rather he make a NEW page instead of waste timing adjusting old pages, and for 3, I don’t really think it matters that much.
      
      If the “laws of physics” (I certainly haven’t done the math) are bothering you too much, pretend it is a really light round that they adapted to fit the larger barrel or something.
      - Chris
        
        It doesn’t violate any law of physics.
        
        It follows the evolution of technology quite plausibly. The WW2 Panzer 4 arguably could penetrate 200mm of sloped steel armor. The M1A2 Abrams tank has 1500mm of armor by comparison, which is impossible for a 75mm gun to penetrate.
        
        Tenzins suit is then far more advanced than an M1A2 Abrams. A Sabot high velocity shot from the tank shot at him in the scene is probably the same comparison. The fact that the shot dented and deflected makes it an armor piercing round, otherwise it would have just exploded, and it probably was not a HEAT round given the more uniform strike on the suits armor. Or they fired a brick/slug of some sort at him not having true rounds to fire.
        
        In any case the vast differences in technology make this situation very plausible. Tenzin may have been in a lot more trouble if the round had hit a servo joint or under an armor plate, but luckily it was direct hit ontop of the main armor.
      - Amberlight
        
        It’s not about piercing armor. It is about transferring kinetic energy. Tenzin would gain enough acceleration for his organs to rupture even from a glazing hit. Tank AP rounds have insane amount of energy in them.
      - Chris
        
        Flat armor, absolutely would direct all energy directly to what was inside. I just like to trust that the suit has the proper absorption properties to redirect or mitigate kinetic energy.
        
        All armor ever developed has had to deal with trauma, from cloth tunics, to DU Composite armor plate, even bullet proof vests.
      - Amberlight
        
        I can’t dictate what you do, but in my opinion when working on a comic on such a quality - and I mean very high quality - it is sometimes better to stop and fix something rather than rush ahead. I would hate this (mostly) hard sci-fi to transform into Warhammer 40k-like “future fantasy” with indestructible nanoarmor and people taking tank shots to the face and barely flinching.
    - NickDA
      
      “We Obey the LAWS of thermodynamics”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc-m9dumEaw
Amberlight

Don’t forget about science and tech discussions on the forums.
For now only Russian readers are active. If you keep being inactive then Minerva will have a strong Russian bias when it comes to technology!:P
http://thedemonarchives.freeforums.net/board/5/science-discussion
Clickbait image:
- NickDA
  
  Also, those guys in there are bloody awesome. Discussing the metalic composition of floating nano particles so that you could magnetically disburse and recollect them, so that they could be the detrius for laser holographic projections… just so damn awesome its not even funny.
Dust Bunny Mafia

When I read the title, my first thought was Indiana Jones…”Snakes. Why’d it have to be snakes?”
- Daniel Sharp
  
  You caught me! ;)
Adriano

Tenzin just allowed himself to be hit by a tank ?
This is definitely a simulation.
Can’t be otherwise. Tenzin isn’t that dumb, especially when sticking with Jane.
- Daniel Sharp
  
  The insinuation is that he was beserking and ignoring her guidance ;P
  - Adriano
    
    Oh, sorry, I didn’t get it :/
    Well, that’ll teach him for next time, ahah ~
  - Honza Prchal
    
    Plus, there’s a lot to keep track of. This is a crowded battlespace.
- Chris Kotthoff
  
  While it’s hard to sneak up on some one in a tank, you see a similar flanking maneuver in Saving Private Ryan when Matt Damon and Tom Hanks almost get crushed by a Tiger tank while holding off superior numbers (sound familiar) Jane is only omni present when she has a satellite up link (she couldn’t track the Death Bot when they got cut off from their sat feed)
  - Adriano
    
    Fair enough, and I didn’t see Saving Ryan unfortunately.
  - SebasP
    
    this is a rogue mission, so I’d say no sat, but I think that the error comes from using her brain to move Tenzin
TengenMachine

Guys! Seba is rocking our worlds with these battle sequences and yet we still can’t break the 100 mark on TWC?

Let’s do our part and vote vote vooooote!

We’ll show these other guys who’s boss!
- Delta-v
  
  I couldn’t have said it better, myself. ^^
  - Adriano
    
    That edit is so sad :'(
Chris Kotthoff

Love the battle, love the art but I also had a ‘wait, what!?” moment when Ten shrugged off a tank round
SebasP

Jane’s CPU is extremely busy trying to predict what Tenzin needs to do to even walk, least say fight against 200+ people (the representatives of the 5 armies, because of course that not ALL the soldiers are so close)
melaredblu

Did he just get fired on by a tank canon and not crumple into a gelatinous heap? I mean, I know he’s wearing armor, but dang, talking about tanking (pun intended) a hit!
- Kaiden
  
  Unlike most armored targets, Tenzin can roll with the hit, letting it bounce. Normally armor has to be seriously thick and/or sloped to resist a shell, because it is effectively immobile. Tenzin (or his armor, rather) can move, absorbing some of the force and changing the slope of his armor to redirect the rest.
  - Amberlight
    
    People tend to forget one important detail here. Acceleration is deadly, and with an impact like this Tenzin’s body would accelerate enough to rupture his internal organs at least.
    Just saying:)
    - NickDA
      
      sshhhhhhhhhh shhhhh… .next you’re gonna say that the tooth fairy isn’t real…! :D
      - DeNitro
        
        Shot a lot of high caliber rifle down range at fixed, propped, hanging, and free standing steel targets. Ricochet looks believable. Now had that shell detonated there would be little chance of him taking a damage check before doing anti-tank duity
    - Kaiden
      
      Hmmm… so a 120mm Armor piercing tank round weighing 7.9 kg with a muzzle velocity (Neglecting the drop in speed between the tank muzzle and the target, of course) of 1,575 m/s impacts Tenzin. Head on, that comes to 7.1 x 10^17 Joules. Let’s see, if we adjust for sloped armor, carry the Tenzin, and adjust for Jane, that results in…
      
      Four dead tanks.
      - Xylas Incarnum
        
        Recheck your math, there’s five tanks that I can see. (scan the smoke.)
    - SebasP
      
      Sounds fair, but I’m thinking: The inner layer of Tenzin’s armor is liquid armor. wouldn’t it be possible for 3 or 4 generations more advanced liquid armor to absorb a big part of the impact’s kinetic force?
      
      that combined with the fact that the projectile was actually deflected and not fully absorbed ( and the fact that this is speculative sci fi )
      
      what I’m thinking is, is it 100% impossible to develop a mobile armor that can withstand a tank’s projectile?
      - Amberlight
        
        Maybe it’s possible to make the armor spread the impact well enough for the arm not to come clean off from such a shot. But even if you spread such an energy to an entirety of Tenzin’s body he will still be flung off his feet and sent flying for several meters. Tank AP rounds have quite the energy in them.
Matt [in Middletown]

Next up: when Jane finally does reconnect with Tenzin’s meatspace, she finds a rather upset self fragment in there.
(Picture Jane wearing Cyndi Lauper 80’s ragged clothing, or full on Mad Max wear inside Tenzin-space meeting normal pristine Jane. “Do you know what a chore it is to keep this place clean?!”)
Honzinator

Good thing that tank shell was glancing blow on angled armour with joints all around it. Movement lessens the damage from acceleration. That matters, as a number of commenters have observed, because even with armour, shock effect matters. Force is mass times acceleration, and the brain doesn’t accelerate terribly safely. Other organs (and blood vessels) don’t always handle it that well either.
Speaking of which, I am surprised the Sons of Mohammed and other groups didn’t use IED ambuscades against Tenzin. Just accelerate the armour cage enough and the man inside is accounted for.
- Chris
  
  Don’t forget the shear mass of the suit itself. I expect a center shot to the chest might knock him over, but a glancing shot to the heavily armored shoulder would be a mere shrug.
  - NickDA
    
    you guys are all too damn amazing… I’m just like a comic action hero nerd… like in Pacific Rim… hitting the dude over the head with a oil tanker… who cares about keel design and how boats strengths lies… was soooooo satisfying to watch…
    
    But then again, we have pitched this as slightly more realistic sci-fi within limits… so sometimes we don’t think everything through… little things we could done like make the tanks be super farther away, give time for energy loss, etc… All things we totally notice and in the eventual “I have so much monies and we are so famous that we can pay Seba to go back and redo everything in like the ‘remastered’ edition… oh yeah”
    - Adriano
      
      As I said above :
      “You can tell your webcomic is famous when you can make shitstorms like that :D”
    - Matt [in Middletown]
      
      “Jane, my arm is numb.”
      
      Told you, Tenzin! But nooooo, you don’t want the terrible invasive machine digging in your head.
      Next chance I get, you’re Tenzin the finger puppet!
      
      “I also have an itch over..”
      
      I swear, you say it again and I will march us right back to the safehouse! Don’t make me turn us around!
    - Matt [in Middletown]
      
      Secondary thought: there really is a Jane fragment in Tenz’ head, and for whatever reason the fragment itself is hesitant to reconnect to herself, and is influencing Tenzin into not wanting the full on limb loss fix.
      His mental state is such that it wouldn’t take too much poking to accomplish that.
      I’ll call the hypothetical fragment Jne.
SebasP

pfttt, “laws of physics”… wait to see next page :P
- Adriano
  
  You can tell your webcomic is famous when you can make shitstorms like that :D
Xylas Incarnum

Say, are any of those grenades at Tenzin’s belt made to go against tanks? I recall tanks being rather weak against certain types of grenades due to their ammunition stores, and that’s not something easily overcome.
Mark Linimon

there’s never enough “beserker mode”.
- Chris Kotthoff
  
  “TENZIN SMASH!”
Eugene Lyssov

You draw “Armata”-type tank. This is 50-tons heawy armored and heavy weaponed platform. Carry 125 mm or 152 mm main cannon.

125 mm cannon 2A82-M1 have energy of 25 Megajoule. 25 000 000 joule, do you understand?

152 mm - 45 Mj.

Even ligth ricochet - destroy hero`s power armor. if this armor is not neutronium or adamantium (or mithril, may be?).

From this moment - all comic turn to bullshit.

I start read this like postapocaliptic scifi story, with cyberpunk-elements and realistic plot.

Now it is superheroic pulpfiction.

Im out.
Adriano

I feel like Jane’s core is just toomuch exposed.
Isn’t she like, really expensive and all?
T-72

Seriously, I am starting to wonder how the hell they were able to recover this much after what is essentially A GLOBAL NUCLEAR WAR.
- Daniel Sharp
  
  Heh. The IRL members of the Russian faction during the time we were running it as a wargame had a lot of great reasons why XD
  
  Mine is that it was more of limited nuclear war, not full thermonuclear destruction of EVERYTHING. In my alt-history/future, more people died from civilization collapse->hunger/disease than from the nukes and fallout.